DX LISTENING DIGEST 5-203, November 26, 2005 Incorporating REVIEW OF INTERNATIONAL BROADCASTING edited by Glenn Hauser, http://www.worldofradio.com Items from DXLD may be reproduced and re-reproduced only if full credit be maintained at all stages and we be provided exchange copies. DXLD may not be reposted in its entirety without permission. Materials taken from Arctic or originating from Olle Alm and not having a commercial copyright are exempt from all restrictions of noncommercial, noncopyrighted reusage except for full credits For restrixions and searchable 2005 contents archive see http://www.worldofradio.com/dxldmid.html NOTE: If you are a regular reader of DXLD, and a source of DX news but have not been sending it directly to us, please consider yourself obligated to do so. Thanks, Glenn For latest updates see our Anomaly Alert page: http://www.worldofradio.com/anomaly.html Latest edition of this schedule version, with hotlinks to station sites and audio, is at: http://www.worldofradio.com/radioskd.html NEXT AIRINGS OF WORLD OF RADIO Extra 63: Sat 1830 WOR WRN to North America [including Sirius Satellite Radio channel 140] Sun 0000 WOR Radio Studio X 1584 http://www.radiostudiox.it/ Sun 0330 WOR WWCR 5070 Sun 0400 WOR WBCQ 9330-CLSB Sun 0600 WOR World FM, Tawa, Wellington, New Zealand 88.2 Sun 0730 WOR WWCR 3215 Sun 0930 WOR WRMI 7385 [from WRN] Sun 0930 WOR WRN to North America, also WLIO-TV Lima OH SAP [including Sirius Satellite Radio channel 140] Sun 0930 WOR KSFC Spokane WA 91.9 Sun 0930 WOR WXPR Rhinelander WI 91.7 91.9 100.9 Sun 0930 WOR WDWN Auburn NY 89.1 [unconfirmed] Sun 0930 WOR KTRU Houston TX 91.7 [occasional] Sun 1400 WOR WRMI 7385 [not 1500 as expected] Sun 1400 WOR KRFP-LP Moscow ID 92.5 Sun 1830 WOR WRN1 to North America [including Sirius Satellite Radio channel 140] Sun 2000 WOR RNI Sun 2230 WOR WRMI 7385 [temporarily] Mon 0400 WOR WBCQ 9330-CLSB Mon 0430 WOR WSUI Iowa City IA 910 Mon 0515 WOR WBCQ 7415 Mon 1900 WOR RFPI [repeated 4-hourly thru Tue 1500] Wed 0030 WOR WBCQ 7415 [usually but temporary] Wed 0100 WOR CJOY INTERNET RADIO plug-in required Wed 1030 WOR WWCR 9985 WRN ON DEMAND: http://new.wrn.org/listeners/stations/station.php?StationID=24 OUR ONDEMAND AUDIO [also CONTINENT OF MEDIA, MUNDO RADIAL]: http://www.worldofradio.com/audiomid.html or http://wor.worldofradio.org WORLD OF RADIO Extra 63 (high version): (stream) http://www.w4uvh.net/worx63h.ram (download) http://www.w4uvh.net/worx63h.rm [Extra 63 is the same as COM 05-09; high version adds WOR opening] WORLD OF RADIO Extra 63 (low version): (stream) http://www.w4uvh.net/com0509.ram (download) http://www.w4uvh.net/com0509.rm (summary) http://www.worldofradio.com/com0509.html WORLD OF RADIO Extra 63 downloads in studio-quality mp3: (high) http://www.obriensweb.com/worx63h.mp3 (low) http://www.obriensweb.com/worx63.mp3 CONTINENT OF MEDIA 05-10 November 25: (stream) http://www.dxing.com/com/com0510.ram (download) http://www.dxing.com/com/com0510.rm (summary) http://www.worldofradio.com/com0510.html [not yet] MUNDO RADIAL NOVIEMBRE-DICIEMBRE: (corriente) http://www.w4uvh.net/mr0511.ram (descargar) http://www.w4uvh.net/mr0511.rm (descargar mp3 para difusoras) http://www.obriensweb.com/mr0511.mp3 (guión) http://www.worldofradio.com/mr0511.html ** AFGHANISTAN. I have received some interesting verifications, and would like to share the verie-signer information with you, in case you have heard these stations and happen to collect QSLs. Khost Radio from the town of Khost (1602 kHz) has also verified by email, v/s Sakhi Miakhil, Director, email address sakhi_miakhil @ yahoo.com also writing in English. I believe that neither of these AM stations [see also MEXICO] has previously responded to any DXer; at least I haven't seen any verifications announced anywhere. Best regards, (Mika Makelainen, Editor, DXing.info, Nov 23, via DXLD) ** ALASKA. Peninsula Broadcasting System not only gets its translators reinstated, contrary to the FCC`s expressed desire, thanks to Alaska`s powerful Congressional delegation, but it asks the Department of Justice to drop a $140,000 fine that had been assessed (Nov FMedia! via DXLD) ** ANTARCTICA. ANTÁRTIDA, 15476, LRA 36, Radio Nacional Arcángel San Gabriel, 2028-2103, 25-11, canciones en español, boleros, comentarios por locutora, canción "Yo soy la tierra", comentario sobre intervenciones cardiovasculares en la provincia de Buenos Aires y el Ministerio de Salud bonaerense. Cierre a las 2103, locutor: "Por hoy finalizamos nuestras transmisiones desde un lugar tan inhóspito como deslumbrante, de lunes a viernes para todo el mundo, LRA 36, Radio Nacional Arcángel San Gabriel, 15476 kHz, de Esperenza al mundo." 24322 (Manuel Méndez, Friol, 27 Km. W. de Lugo, Spain, Grundig Satellit 500 y Sony ICF SW 7600 G, antena de cable, 10 metros, orientada WSW, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** ARGENTINA. 15820 LSB, Radio Continental, 1044-1111, 26-11, Locutor, entrevista, "un programa ciento por ciento argentino". A las 1100, noticias: "Radio Continental, 8 de la mañana en todo el país, en Buenos Aires 21 grados, ligeramente nublado". "Siga el ritmo de la información.". Noticias, anuncios comerciales. "Ciento por ciento argentino". 25322 (Manuel Méndez, Friol, 27 Km. W. de Lugo, Spain, Grundig Satellit 500 y Sony ICF SW 7600 G, antena de cable, 10 metros, orientada WSW, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** BAHAMAS [non]. The end of ZNS-3 reception? Subject: AM 810 WEUS signing on soon? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I got a dead carrier today on 810 AM. It looks like WEUS out of Orlovista is testing and will be going on the air soon. According to radio locator & the FCC database they will be 10,000 watts directional by day, 400 watts directional by night. I could not find any info on their owners, Star Over Orlando Inc. Anyone know anything about them, and what kind of format they will be? IMHO I would like to see either an oldies or standards station on there. Whatever it will be they better do a lot of promoting once they are on or else they will be selling snake oils. It is very hard for a stand alone AM to succeed nowadays (FrankF, Nov 12, radio-info.com Orlando board via Brock Whaley, GA, DXLD) Looked up the day pattern of 810 near Orlando. It shoots ENE. Slight, but by no means tight, null southeast towards ZNS-3. Deepest null to the west to protect 820 Largo. Deep night pattern nulls for WGY, ZNS- 3, and what I presume to be Mexico to the Southwest. Daytime-lobes to the East-Northeast. Null, but not a deep null towards ZNS-3 to the Southeast. Deep null to the West for 820 Largo. Here, have a look. http://www.fccinfo.com/CMDProFacLookup.php?sCurrentService=AM&calls=WEUS&tabSearchType=Call+Sign+Search Pick the CP of your choice. Patterns at the bottom right (I hope I am correct on this direction. Lol.) The 1 kW CP just nulls Largo, but I understand they have shot for 10 kW (Brock Whaley, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** BHUTAN. A52CDX: Daily reports and updates (in French language) from the current operation from Bhutan can be found at http://www.uft.net/articles.php?lng=fr&pg=519 [TNX F5NQL] (425 DX News via Dave Raycroft, ODXA via DXLD) ** BOLIVIA. 4781.39, Radio Tacana, Tumupasa, 0001-0010, November 25, Spanish, TC, regional news: "....Radio Tacana informa para todas las comunidades....", song, ID by male as: "Radio Tacana", after, tropical songs, 24332 (Arnaldo Slaen, Argentina, HCDX via DXLD) ** CANADA. Digital audio broadcasting in a coma in Canada --- News article sent on by William Hepburn, ON, refers to CHUM`s license for a subscription radio service in the Canadian DAB Band (L-band). Looks like they`re not even going to bother using it. This was supposed to be the ``saviour`` for the band. Canadian DAB is supposed to be a new digital radio broadcast band, 1452-1492 MHz, to replace AM and FM, but there are no radios in the stores and no one knows it exists. Transmitters are operating in only a few major cities with free broadcasts parallel to existing AM and FM stations. Audio quality and station coverage are inferior to ordinary analog FM. ``A monstrous flop,`` according to Hepburn (Nov FMedia! via DXLD) ** CANADA. Peter Gzowski's legacy featured on CBC Archives website. 12 radio and TV clips from Peter's career are included in the tribute: http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-68-1793/arts_entertainment/peter_gzowski/ (Richard Cuff / Allentown, PA USA, Nov 24, Swprograms mailing list via DXLD) Richard: Many thanks for pointing this out. There is actually a whole lot more Gzowski on the CBC Archives Site. If you do an advanced search and choose Gzowski as a CBC Personality there is something like 138 clips which feature him. Many of them are full interviews and make for wonderful listening (Sandy Finlayson, PA, ibid.) I will go out on a limb here... and really not all that far... and say that Gzowski is (was) the best interviewer I have ever heard bar none in my radio listening experience. He really listened to what his subjects were saying and always turned the encounter into a conversation, rather than just an interview. He was uniquely able to both go where the subject wanted to take him as well as elicit the things he wanted to know simultaneously. Of course, part of the credit for that has to go to the format of his program which gave ample time for a conversation to develop. No three minute sound bites there. I used to record Morningside at home when it was carried by CBC North shortwave service. When that ended, I rigged an antenna system so I could hear CBL 740 Toronto during the day well enough to record. (I live about 340 air miles from Toronto; for some reason 940 Montreal some 200 miles away never made it here all that well except at night.) To say I was a fan would be an understatement. To say that Peter is missed would be a gross understatement (John Figliozzi, Halfmoon, NY, ibid.) ** CANADA. I often listen to the Moncton stream of CBCR1 on the Atlantic zone feed, such as for Quirks & Quarks, Sat 1605 UT at its first airing. But this now IDs as 90.5 FM Campbellton-Dalhousie. Whatever became of CBA? (Glenn Hauser, OK, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** CHINA. Heard on November 24 at 0627z, H2 2 x 9080, 18159.9v, fundamental not heard, CPBS 2 domestic service, transmitter site Duodian, according to Klingenfuss, only had carrier at S4, no audio, low modulation, Northern hemisphere summer only; finally got audio at 0644z, Chinese female announcer, above the noise. Checked 27240 but nothing there, F2 not so good today; 0910z still there with CC Fa, and still nothing heard on 9080. Using Icom R75 G5RV from Adelaide, South Australia, Grid PF95GA, 35 degrees South, 138 degrees East. 73 (Dave Vitek, harmonics yg via DXLD) See also JAPAN ** CHINA. Open carrier on 6095, best signal on 49m band, at 1558 UT Nov 26. What could this be? Promptly at 1600, 5+1 timesignal, CJKT/ZRGD ID and now mixing with something else in Chinese. Jammer was lying in wait for R. Free Asia via Tinian to start up at 1600. Meanwhile, Firedrake was banging away before and after 1600 on 6145 against CBS Taiwan. The Nov 6 version of the NDXC frequency list mentions the victims but not the fact that much more powerful Chinese jammers are on the same frequencies (Glenn Hauser, OK, DX LISTENING DIGEST) Here in Germany I note a lot of China mainland Mandarin stations mostly on even channels spread all over the 49 mb. I heard Mandarin news at 2200 UT, even as jammer spread on 6170 / 6110 kHz -- underneath I hear BBC Mandarin from Kimje, Korea, and Nakorn, Thailand, respectively. 73 (Wolfgang Büschel, Germany, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** CHINA. 9605, China National Radio, V. of Economy (Tentative) 1059- 1130+ Nov 26. On the 1100 hour a canned ID by a man and woman in Chinese, mentioning a long list of "FM" and "AM" affiliates. Could not catch the affiliates' ID's only the word 'FM' and AM'. The program consisted of comments only. No music or other types noted. Also on this frequency from 1100 is WYFR and the BBC from 0900 mixing in with China. China is at a good level this morning if this is China? Also noted on 7345 and 9500 in parallel with 9605 (Chuck Bolland, Clewiston, Florida, NRD545, dipole, DX LISTENING DIGEST) Probably defacto jammers (gh, DXLD) ** DJIBOUTI. R. Diff TV Djibouti, 4780 kHz, QSL letter, sticker in 201 days for English report with 1$ (Kenji Hashimoto, Japan, Japan Premium Nov 25 via DXLD) ** FRANCE. Re J Berglund's observations about 1278 kHz, F Bleu Alsace, like other regional F Bleu services, is local during the day until 7:15 pm, when stations rejoin the national service. The MW outlet carries the same programming as local FM outlets except from 7am to 1pm, when programming on MW is in Alsatian. I believe the transmitter is near Selestat, about halfway between Strasbourg and Colmar. The Alsatian service has its own Web site, found by going to the F Bleu Web site, choosing Alsace, and then following the link to France Bleu Elsass, described as "La radio en alsacien sur 1278 Khz en ondes moyennes." (Mike Cooper, GA, Nov 24, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** GERMANY [non]. DW is testing Trincomalee on 6000 kHz (instead of registered 6180) at 2200-2258 UT only four days Nov 24-27th!! 6180 2200-2258 43SE,44,45,49 TRM 250kW 60deg -30slew English 60 degrees is in direction of Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tokyo ... Cyprus is towards Western Europe, Paris, Irish Sea, and back lobe to Oman, Maldives, Diego Garcia area (Wolfgang Büschel, Germany, Nov 26, DX LISTENING DIGEST) I.e. to avoid collision with CyBC Fri-Sat-Sun only broadcast on 6180 at 2215-2245 (gh, DXLD) ** GREECE [and non]. Did someone in Delano forget that this is Saturday? Nov 26 at 1500, VOG missing from 9775 when transmission is normally extended an hour to cover Hellenes Around the World, nor was it on 15485 which was not on until after 1600 as usual. 9775 was certainly on before 1500 as I had to cope with its overload marring reception all over the 31m band. HATW still audible direct on 15630 and 9420 (Glenn Hauser, OK, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** INDIA. AT0, Special Event). Arasu, VU2UR, informs OPDX that some VU amateurs will be active using the special callsigns like AT0JCB, AT2JCB, AT5JCB, etc., all with the same suffix on or before/after November 30th. It will only last for a very short time. This is in celebration with the birth/anniversary of the Great Indian Scientist Acharya Jagadeesh Chandra Bose (JCB), who demonstrated wireless communication, much before G. Marconi. Watch out for these special stations and receive a special QSL card. ADDED NOTE: Dattatry, VU2DSI, informed OPDX that he will be active using the special callsign AT0JCB for 24 hours on November 30th. Suggested frequencies are as follows: 10m - 28510 and 28490 kHz 40m - 7090 and 7035 kHz 15m - 21310 and 21270 kHz 80m - 3780 kHz The QSL info and address for VU2DSI is available on QRZ.com (KB8NW/OPDX/BARF80 Nov 28 via Dave Raycroft, Nov 26, ODXA via DXLD) ** INTERNATIONAL WATERS [non]. Give it a listen at http://www.oldiesproject.com/ and please leave a message. I left this message: From 1964 to 1967 the airwaves were alive with the exciting sound of fabulous Big L and I spent many many hours of my teenage life listening to this wonderful station. Even at school only the lessons got in the way as we had the station on the school radio at breaks piped around the school. Nothing in radio was ever as good before and nothing after - Big L was unique and exhilarating. 14 August 1967 was such a very sad day for millions of Britain's youth, myself included. Now we have the Oldies Project, no irrelevant chatter, just the great music. Many of the jocks may have gone but the fantastic music lives on and in particular the BigL favourities and obscurities make the Oldies Project a fantastic station...thank you so much for the brilliant music and memories. Forget the "gold" stations - The Oldies Project is priceless! Please don't go away. Thanks - they appreciate the feedback (Mike Terry, Nov 24, BDXC-UK via DXLD) ** IRELAND. On 3413-USB, VOLMET with a British(?) accent, surprisingly somewhat above my hi noise level on this band, 0048 UT Nov 26. Visibilities were in km, ceilings I thought in feet, but did not catch whether the altimeters were in kilopascals, millibars or inches of Hg. (Actually, this is barometric pressure so altimeters can be adjusted to compensate.) Very hard to catch airport names, but thought I heard Keflavik once. Searching on 3413 in DXLD stash, found one hit in 3-026 about Shannon Aeradio, listing this as one of their VOLMET frequencies. Stopped abruptly at 0055, but back on when rechecked at 0112. Shannon has an online reception report form for QSL at http://www.iaa.ie/air_traf/sha_rec2.asp but I did not find a schedule showing the hourparts when their VOLMET is on this probably shared frequency, so it could have been something else. Then I searched at http://www.wunclub.com but found nothing useful except that Honolulu also uses(used?) 3413; but I would not be hearing it at this hour! A Google search quickly led to what appears to be the definitive reference on worldwide HF VOLMET transmissions http://home.cogeco.ca/~dxinfo/bc/volmet-wx.htm which confirms that Shannon is on 3413 continuously except 55-60 and 25-30 past the hours, and indeed Keflavik is one of the airports covered in the 50-55 segment. FRG-7 was still tuned to 3413 when I rechecked almost 6 hours later; had left it on as that is necessary to keep the BFO stable. Now reception was slightly better; around 0638 ID 3 or 5 times in a row as ``Shannon Radio``. I suppose this is artificially produced but pretty smooth compared to some marine weather broadcasts heard recently (Glenn Hauser, OK, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** KOREA NORTH [non]. Clandestine (JAPAN), Shiokaze, 5890 kHz. Thanks card in 6d for Japanese report with 1000 yen (Kenji Hashimoto, Japan, Japan Premium Nov 25 via DXLD) ** KOREA NORTH. NORTH KOREAN AGENCY SLAMS CNN VIDEO "LIES" | Text of report in English by North Korean news agency KCNA Pyongyang, 26 November: CNN is now acting a shock force in conducting the US psychological campaign against the DPRK [Democratic People's Republic of Korea]. It aired a video tape which serious misrepresented the independent and fair and aboveboard measures taken by the DPRK for enforcing laws, without confirming their truth. The video tape is full of sheer lies negating the popular and class nature and the democratic principle of the DPRK's laws and tarnishing its image from A to Z. CNN telecast without hesitation what other media hesitated to do so in the past. This clearly proves that the CNN has been reduced to a trumpeter and a political waiting maid for the US administration. The US set in motion reptile media whenever its hostile policy towards the DPRK was caught in a cleft. This is its trite method. Last year, too, the US instigated the Washington Post to spread the story of "experiment of poisonous gas on human bodies" on the basis of "testimonies allegedly made by defectors from the North". The US has left no means untried to slander the DPRK, prompted by its inveterate rejection of the political system in it. After its unsuccessful attempt to force the DPRK to "scrap its nuclear programme first" aimed to disarm it the US has become frantic with orchestrating various forms of psychological operations. The video tape the CNN broadcast at the instigation of the US administration might be a product of its psychological campaign against the DPRK to realize a "regime change" in it. It is nothing surprising that such video tape is aired in the US as it is infamous for concocting the whole gamut of smear operations such as "human rights abuse", "drug smuggling", "human traffic" and "counterfeit money". We are compelled to criticize the CNN styling itself the world's most independent broadcasting body, for having behaved so mean in pursuit of profits. The CNN is losing popularity as the days go by although it had high audience rating in the world in the past. Much upset by this, the CNN staged such poor farce to improve its image. But such farce only deprived it of objectivity, impartiality and independence in the international arena. The US has lost both principle and interests. No sooner had the video tape been broadcast than those who know about the DPRK even a bit claimed that the way of speaking and dressing of those who appeared on the screen and the background against which the scenes were shot were quite different from the reality in the DPRK, a clear proof of a sheer fabrication. Whenever it visited the DPRK CNN blamed other Western media for their lack of impartiality and objectivity, asking the host to grant the right to cover events in the DPRK to it only. So, the DPRK side allowed its press corps to visit it several times and provided it with every possible condition for news coverage. However, recently CNN has broken faith with the DPRK, giving rise to a question as to whether it has done it, displeased with its opening the door to other media in the US on the principle of ensuring broad-based nature of news coverage or because of the pressure from its authorities or prompted by its foolish calculation to improve its image with the adoption of the anti-DPRK "human rights resolution" at the UN as a momentum. Through the recent farce the CNN dug its own grave. CNN's behaviour of serving the administration in its hostile policy towards the DPRK only revealed its despicable ulterior motive to prolong its dirty remaining days and make profits. It is deplorable that CNN is in such a position to depart from objectivity and impartiality in its service, away from the basic press ethics. The recent farce helped the DPRK know well about the reason why the international community does not trust CNN, terming it a prejudiced and self-justified reptile broadcasting service. As far as the issue of enforcing state laws is concerned, the doctrine of "freedom and democracy" advocated by CNN may suit the specific reality in the US, the world's worst human rights abuser. But the DPRK has law and order and democracy of its own style which defend the ideology and system chosen by its own people and provide them with genuine human rights. We do not deny the fact that the DPRK also has its own punishment system such as death penalty for those who committed felony by infringing upon its own sovereignty and system and people's life and property as is the case with many other countries. But the DPRK does not use such barbaric execution method as the US has used in different parts of the world in the present century as well as in the last century. It is only the US that is using such harsh torture and execution method as forcing the prisoner to sit on an electric chair, the method unanimously denounced by the world people. We will not show any mercy to those who are hostile to the DPRK no matter how often the US may cite its independent law enforcement measures for attaining its political purpose to bring down the inviolable and dignified political system in the DPRK. All the facts go to clearly prove that its words that "it recognizes the DPRK as a sovereign state" and it "wants to normalize relations with it" are nothing but hypocrisy and its ambition to realize a "regime change" in the DPRK remains unchanged. The DPRK will consolidate the single-minded unity of its people around the supreme headquarters as firm as a rock in order to frustrate the hostile forces' ever-more undisguised moves to isolate and stifle it. Source: KCNA, Pyongyang, in English 1059 gmt 26 Nov 05 (via BBCM via DXLD) CNN show was quite an eye-opener; hope you caught it (gh, DXLD) ** LIBYA [non]. 9590, Voice of Africa, 1936-1957, árabe, escuchada el 25 de Nov a locutor con comentarios, discurso de personalidad del Ecuador en español con traducción simultánea al árabe; cortan la emisión sin terminar, las frecuencias de 11635 y 11860 en portadora. SINPO 55444 (José Miguel Romero, Burjasot (Valencia), España, SANGEAN ATS 909, antena hílo de siete metros, dxldyg via DX LISTENING DIGEST) Via FRANCE, of course (gh) ** MALAYSIA. 5964.95, Nasional FM, Nov 17, 1337-1402, 43443. Malay Music and news, ID and SJ [?] at 1359. [singing jingle, maybe? --- gh] 6024.9, V. of Islam, Nov 17, 1402-1412, 33443-34443. Malay News, ID at 1409 (Kouji Hashimoto, Japan, Japan Premium via DXLD) ** MARKET REEF. OJ0, (Daily Reports Filed By Martti, OH2BH, From The OJ0 Trip). Before and during the November 2005 Market Reef DXpedition (OJ0B & OJ0J), Martti, OH2BH, one of the participants, is filing daily reports from the area, reflecting his impressions and those of the other team members (OH2PM, OH2BO and OH0RJ) about each day's activities. For communicating his continuing stories, Martti is using his Nokia 6630 camera cellphone which also makes it possible for him to send high quality pictures. These are published on a daily basis, along with Martti's firsthand reports, on the Internet at this address: http://www.kolumbus.fi/oh2bn/pagemarket.htm (KB8NW/OPDX/BARF80 Nov 28 via Dave Raycroft, Nov 26, ODXA via DXLD) OJ0 - The Finnish team on Market Reef [425DXN 759] will participate in the CQ WW DX CW as follows: OJ0J is going to be operated by OH2PM on 80m and OJ0B by OH2BO on 160m; Martti, OH2BH will be giving out the OJ0 multiplier as OJ0B on 10-40 metres (watch 14075, 21075 and 28075 kHz in particular). The group is considering extending their stay on the reef and a decision will be made on Monday. First hand reports and pictures by OH2BH are being published on a daily basis on http://www.kolumbus.fi/oh2bn/pagemarket.htm. (425 DX News via Dave Raycroft, ODXA via DXLD) ** MEXICO. I have received some interesting verifications, and would like to share the verie-signer information with you, in case you have heard these stations and happen to collect QSLs. XEPE Tecate BC (1700 kHz) has responded to me recently, v/s President Jaime Bonilla, from email address jmendez @ jaimebonilla.com He wrote in English. I believe that neither of these AM stations [see also AFGHANISTAN] has previously responded to any DXer; at least I haven't seen any verifications announced anywhere. Best regards, (Mika Makelainen, Editor, DXing.info, Nov 23, via DXLD) Bonilla is of course the maligned owner in the dispute over his Mexican stations operating illegally, interfering with US stations (gh, DXLD) ** MEXICO. On 1060, I am hearing a station that is playing non-stop Jazz and Blues under KYW. I have been listening for almost an hour and have not yet heard a voice announcement. Does anyone have an idea who this is? (Bill Harms, Elkridge, Maryland, UT Nov 25, NRC-AM via DXLD) [Later:] On a whim, I tried Radio Educación on 6185 and they are parallel. I have heard Radio Educación before on 6185. So this is not new. Oh well. XEEP is rather strong here and can be overwhelming to KYW even though I am only 95 miles from KYW and even when I peak my antenna system for Philadelphia. According to the NRC Nighttime Antenna Pattern Book 2001, KYW has a small null towards here, but it still throws a fairly large amount of signal here both day and night. I have to wonder if XEEP is more than 50 kW (Bill Harms, Elkridge, Maryland, ibid.) XEEP is reported to have installed a 100 kw Nautel in the last 18 months. I suspect that this ¨directional¨ station is not as well nulled as it might be, as I have heard it in my car driving between LA and Phoenix several times (David Gleason, CA, ibid.) David, XEEP was a regular when I was in Rancho Mirage in 2000. Here on the OR coast, it is fairly rare. Only heard during AU cx. 73, (Patrick Martin, Seaside OR, ibid.) XEEP remains a big pest on 1060 here in the midwest as it has been for many years, whether 50 or 100 kW or supposedly running DA or not. They are just about the easiest Mexican to get here. From their signal strength I honestly had no idea they were supposed to be DA (or if DA, that said DA was supposed to somewhat limit emissions towards the US) 73 KAZ Barrington IL (Neil Kazaross, ibid.) ** OKLAHOMA. KHMY 93.1 Pratt-Wichita KS now has a low-power relay on the 21 MHz band in Enid! Nov 26 around 1510 UT I was hearing this extremely distorted music and talk in FM mode, obviously a domestic commercial station, roughly from 21500 to 21750 kHz, peaking around 21560. Altho weak, it was enough to block the also weak SW signals from Eu and ME. Actually, I am sure this is what happens: somebody in the neighborhood is listening to 93.1 and the crummy receiver is radiating on the 2nd harmonic of the 10.7 MHz IF. I`ve had this problem before, and for some reason it never peaks where you would expect, 21.4 MHz. I could identify the source only by searching the entire FM band on another receiver until I found a match (Glenn Hauser, Enid, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** OKLAHOMA [and non]. Sand Springs, K292AP *106.5 and Tulsa K255BE *98.9, both run by the Educational Media Foundation, and carrying their ``Air 1`` service. This has upset some Tulsa residents, claiming the same program is on two local frequencies. The FCC dismissed their objections on procedural grounds, but is encouraging K255BE to go to a different site where there will be no overlap in signals. It wants EMF to be more careful when filing future applications. This apparently signals a desire on the part of the FC to not grant redundant translator applications, such as happened during the flurry of filing during the recent translator window (Nov FMedia! via DXLD) ** SLOVAKIA [and non]. Conflicto de frecuencias Eslovaquia-Portugal Saludos cordiales, no sé si podran escuchar a Radio Eslovaquia Internacional desde las 2100 a 2130 por los 9460, pero por aquí en Valencia de lunes a viernes es imposible. RDP tapa a esa emisora; adjunto a continuación relación de horarios y frecuencias de ambas emisoras en esa frecuencia. Este conflicto debería solucionarse de alguna manera, no sé exactamente quien debería moverse pero si no hay alguna modificación a Radio Eslovaquia sólo la podremos escuchar los fines de semana. 9460 R. PORTUGAL INT. 2000-2400 .23456. Portuguese Lisbon-São Gabriel 300 45 POR 0840W3845 RDP b05 9460 R. SLOVAKIA INT. 2100-2127 1234567 Spanish Rimavská Sobota 150 245 SVK 2000E4823 SLO b05 (José Miguel Romero, Burjasot (Valencia), España, Nov 25, dxldyg via DX LISTENING DIGEST) José, I don't see any conflict in Europe to use a 9 MHz channel on late evening (21 UT). Because RDP Lisbon is a powerhouse at 52 degrees from Lisbon, at least noted RDP with S=9 +20 dB in Germany. SVK's Spanish service on same channel is meant for zones 12 and 13 at northern South America across the Atlantic: 12 NW S. America, 13 NE Brazil, but NOT for Iberian subcontinent. Saludos de Wolfy df5sx (Wolfgang Büschel, ibid.) Cordial regards, SVK emission at 2100 for 9460 is the only one for Spain in this schedule; in Valencia it is heard with interference from the RDP, the frequency of 11600 is not heard. On the other hand in the program "He Mentions with the listeners" the listeners complain that they cannot listen to R. Slovaquia, something is happening. A strong embrace (José Miguel, ibid.) ** SOUTH CAROLINA [non]. Brother Scare on 9855, 1450 UT Nov 26; compared to WWRB 9320, 9855 was about 4 or 5 seconds ahead, which I thought unusual; but after some dead air, it became about 2 seconds behind. From 5-196: 1300-1500 on 9855 WER 250 kW / non-dir to WeEu/ME, new (Glenn Hauser, OK, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** SPAIN. REE. 9675. 11/24/2005. 0507-0600. Excellent program of opera and classical music. OM announcer in Spanish with extended descriptions of the selections being broadcast. From my limited knowledge of Spanish, I think all of the music had been recorded specifically for REE. // 6055. VG (Joe Wood, Greenback TN, MARE Tipsheet via DXLD) Yes, that is Nuestro Sello, from RTVE`s own label, as I have mentioned a number of times here (gh, DXLD) 9630, unID. 11/22/05. 2210-2240. VG reception with OM in Spanish or Portuguese with long rambles between songs. Music was a mixture of ME, gaucho, and Gypsy. Very strong signal, but no hint to what station or country mentioned (Joe Wood, TN, ibid.) This too is REE, and that Tuesday 2200 program would be La Bañera de Ulises, which I am listening to as I edit on RNE Radio 3, 1843 UT Sat Nov 26 (gh, DXLD) ** SPAIN. On 11805 and 12150 kHz noted two spurious signals of fundamental REE Noblejas transmission in Spanish on 11920 and 12035, difference 115 kHz, around 0600-0800 UT Nov 26, when 11920 towards Asia/Philippines on air (Wolfgang Büschel, Stuttgart, Germany, harmonics yg via DXLD) ** SPAIN. NEW ENGLISH-LANGUAGE RADIO STATION OPENS IN SPAIN A new English-speaking radio station has started broadcasting in Spain's Almanzora Valley on the Costa de Almería. Broadcasting from La Alfoquia on 89.8FM and the Internet, Valle Radio is on the air 24/7. Read the details at Euroweeklynews.com http://www.euroweeklynews.com/ewn/news.php?ref=260811298550306 Valle Radio http://www.valleradio.net # posted by Andy @ 13:27 Nov 16 (Media Network blog via DXLD) ** SWEDEN [and non]. R. Sweden, English to NAm at 1330 Nov 25 not making it on 15240, just a trace under huge signal from CRI via Sackville on 15230. However, Sweden was listenable direct on 11550 altho directed eastward to Asia: a case of MUF trumping azimuth. Entirely different story an hour later at 1430 when 15240 is relayed by Sackville. At 1458, there was a brief overlap of the totally unsynchronized English audio as 15240 was being handed back to Sweden direct, opening Swedish at 1459 (Glenn Hauser, OK, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** TAIWAN. CENTRAL WEATHER BUREAU NEW SHORTWAVE BROADCAST According to the announcement of the Taiwan government, Central Weather Bureau started to operate the 2nd marine shortwave broadcasting station on October 1. The station is located at Cigu, Tainan prefecture with the frequency of 5170 kHz USB. It covers the Northeast and Southwest of Taiwan, including Taiwan Straits. The first shortwave station was in operation in March, 2003 on 8117 kHz USB, located at Mt. Wufen, Taipei prefecture. Although it was intended to cover the whole island and surrounded sea, ships passing through the Taiwan Straits were often blocked against receiving due to the Taiwan Central Mountain. The 2nd station is intended to improve this situation. The broadcasting is done 24 hours daily, and includes every 3 hour weather observation and analysis, onshore fishery weather forecasts, and typhoon information, in Chinese. The same contents on both 5170 and 8117 kHz. In Tokyo the signal on 5170 is much stronger than that on 8117. The address; Meteorological Phonetic Broadcasting, Weather Forecast Center, Central Weather Bureau, No. 64 Congyuan Road, Taipei, Taiwan. URL: http://www.cwb.gov.tw/index.htm (mostly in Chinese, with some English) (Takahito Akabayashi, Tokyo, Japan, Nov 26, DX LISTENING DIGEST) Phonetic? Meaning artificial speech perhaps? (gh, DXLD) ** U S A. Hi Chuck, IBB, ret., We have noticed that the B-05 season has no more transmissions from the GA site, just GB. Wonder if you have any info on what is happening. Is GA being decommissioned? 73, (Glenn to Charles A. Taylor, NC, via DX LISTENING DIGEST) Glenn, Greenville Plant A is in caretaker status. Two techs on site. Whether IBB will clear the site or will let it rust away remains to be see. Three functioning IBB sites in US now. Greenville Plant B, Delano, and Marathon. That`s the truth, 73 from (Charles, Watching an area die, Nov 25, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** U S A [non]. Re 5-203: Hi dear Dragan, thanks for your remarks and corrections. The VoA Ethiopian service languages are registered for 13800 kHz channel in VoA/IBB/HFCC B-05. But due of some vague monitoring reports about Ethiopian government jamming of this channel, IBB decided to go down by 10 kHz to new 13790 kHz a week ago. 73 (Wolfgang Büschel, Germany, Nov 24, DX LISTENING DIGEST) So they left the old frequency on the website to mislead the jammer(?), or just don`t keep it up to date? (gh, DXLD) ** U S A. Re: WWRB 5085 frequency loss time frame correction: The FCC gave WEWN the use of 5085 approximately 72 days after kicking WWRB off the frequency, (not 5 months) (Dave Frantz, WWRB, DX LISTENING DIGEST) Maybe so, but they did not start using it until well into November. Actually, this is not how things really work. If a US SW station wants an OOB frequency, it can request it from the FCC. If there are no standing objections to its use, the station is OK`d to go ahead and try it, and see if using it generates any objections. If there are, from a higher-priority service, which is the case OOB by definition where broadcasters operate only on a NIB, non-interference basis, the station has to leave. That doesn`t keep some other broadcaster from trying the same frequency later; interference circumstances may be different but the new station also runs a risk of having to move off. Also, different seasons produce different propagation into different parts of the world, leading to interference some times and not others. Some stations have been able to use a frequency one season and not another. WWRB could also have re-applied for 5085, and maybe got it again before WEWN did. Of course, in the private SW context, no frequency `belongs` to any US SW station (gh, DXLD) Before he saw the above, a follow-up: Hi Glenn: More info on 5085: It seems that the FCC is between a rock and a hard place. They [the FCC] are trying very hard keeping Broadcasters like WWRB, WWCR and WEWN and others on the air with decent frequencies but what is happening pressure from Homeland security and other Government agencies is wanting to remove broadcasters from the 'out of band' frequencies. So the crunch is on *or about to be on* for ALL U.S. based shortwave stations. ALL 'out of band' frequencies are at risk! At first blush, the 5085 situation might look bad, smells bad, is bad, has made WWRB very upset with the loss, then VERY Angry with the quick reassignment to another SW station. Upon close examination, Emotions aside, with more facts on hand, in the near future there may not be enough decent 'out of band' frequencies to go around Broadcasters may even have to idle transmitters for lack of frequencies! With this information WWRB shortwave is canceling our plans to purchase 5 brand new Continental 418 DRM transmitters and redirect the funding for the transmitters to our Aviation Communications / Navigation business. If we decide at a later date to invest in new transmitters we may form a partnership with a foreign national / religious organization and build a new SW station is some other country (Dave Frantz, WWRB, Nov 25, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** U S A. FAA Flight Service Stations --- The Federal Aviation Administration has apparently turned over its Flight Service Stations to a private contractor, according to this page from the FAA's Web site: Transition of Flight Services On February 1, 2005, the FAA awarded a contract for the services provided by the 58 AFSSs in the Continental United States, Puerto Rico, and Hawaii to the Lockheed Martin Corporation. Lockheed Martin assumed responsibility for providing AFSS flight services on October 4, 2005. With continued FAA oversight, Lockheed Martin will maintain deliverance of flight services according to the Agency's strict safety and service requirements. Another page states: Transition of Flight Services Tuesday, October 4, at 12:01 a.m., employees of 58 Automated Flight Service Stations (AFSS) transitioned from government service to the contractor, Lockheed Martin, as previously scheduled. The contract for service was awarded to Lockheed Martin on February 1, 2005 after the agency concluded a competitive sourcing initiative. Approximately 1700+ FAA employees are now Lockheed Martin employees. Lockheed Martin will continue to provide AFSS Preflight, In-Flight, and Operational Services on a 24-7 basis. Lockheed Martin will also provide special services such as supporting aviation related education and outreach programs. More than 300 Flight Service employees were hired by the agency and other government offices hired eight. Additionally, many AFSS employees took retirement. The numbers are still in flux. During the initial stages of this transition phase, estimated to take approximately 18 months, Lockheed Martin will use existing FAA facilities and equipment and will not require any changes to the FAA National Airspace System (NAS). After development of their Flight Service 21 (FS21) system and the completion of all required NAS interface tests, Lockheed Martin will transition from the FAA legacy equipment to the FS21 system and consolidate AFSS facilities. The AFSSs are responsible for collecting, processing, and delivering aeronautical and meteorological information to promote safe and expeditious flight. The FAA and Lockheed Martin are committed to a seamless transition. The FAA will continue to monitor the contract service provider throughout the 10 years of the contract to assure improved safety and services to the flying public as well as cost-savings for the taxpayer (via Mike Cooper, GA, Nov 26, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** U S A. TN, Cleveland, WOOP-LP, *99.9 kf. Format ranges from traditional country to Appalachian bluegrass, old-fashioned gospel music, acoustic, cowboy and snippets of other musical genres. It has no compensated employees, and indeed welcomes outsiders to come in and do programs. Assisting those endeavors is an automation system, the Digital Juke Box. Also streams at http://www.woopfm.com and is installing an RDS encoder for sending out the song title and artist info at 57 kHz (Nov FMedia! via DXLD) ** U S A. LA, New Orleans, WTIX 690 still off, but hopes to be back on Dec. 1, having sustained major damage at its transmitter and studio sites (Nov FMedia! via DXLD) ** U S A. Eight stations in a major market is not enough, whined Clear Channel CEO Mark Mays. He spoke to the Progress and Freedom Foundation in Washington DC, and cited the ever-growing competitors to ``free radio``. Those include iPods, wireless phones, Internet and satellite radio. He proposed upping the limit to 12 stations in major markets, and warned that radio is already ``at risk.`` (Nov FMedia! via DXLD) ** U S A. I was monitoring 1600 kHz at 2255 UT November 24, noting a heterodyne on the high side, about 200 Hz, indicating some station was off-frequency around 1600.2 kHz. Dominant audio was from a religious station, but I could not be sure it was the station off-frequency. Speaker closed with AC 901 phone, so I assume that was WMQM Memphis, tho with brokered religion one can never be absolutely positive about such clues. No WMQM ID heard before it went off at 2301, presumably changing to its very low 35-watt night power, and 5 pm CST is the November SS time for WMQM --- in December it will be 2245. And the het also went off at the same time, altho there may have been a trace of it still. Now 1600 was as usual dominated by KATZ St Louis, more religion (Glenn Hauser, OK, DX LISTENING DIGEST) At noon CST there does indeed seem to be *someone* about 200 Hz high. I can't tell whether it's WMQM. There's a Spanish-language station, I presume the one just north of Dallas, about 15dB under WMQM here - and there are a number of other stations that could possibly be responsible for the het. WMQM's sister station WNQM-1300 here is generally quite well-engineered, so I'd be surprised if WMQM is off- channel. But there's always a first time, and even well-engineered stations sometimes have component failures... – (Doug Smith, W9WI, Pleasant View (Nashville), TN, Nov 25, NRC-AM via DXLD) ** U S A. Salem drops the white bread gospel syndicated format on daytimer 1190. It is now Spanish. This in Atlanta, where 610, 1040, 1080, 1100, 1130, 1190, 1420, 1460, 1550, and 1600 are all metro stations that are Mexican formatted. 1190 sometimes propagates at sunset, but they are down to 2.5 kW critical hours. Non-DA (Brock Whaley, Lilburn, Nov 25, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** U S A. KWYR 1260 SD sneaky cheating for Nebraska football KWYR used to cheat every night and for several years; I don't think they ever switched to day power. This season they've been behaving almost every night and are buried under others rather than very dominant as before. They do tend to run day power at night for Winner SD games, and tonite I was listening to U. Nebraska FB on 1260 from them and just as the game ended (within a couple of seconds!!) they cut power and went from quite dominant to buried and barely noticeable! LOL. 73 KAZ on a very mediocre DX night for late Nov in Barrington IL (Neil Kazaross, Nov 25, IRCA via DXLD) ** VENEZUELA. Radio Amazonas en 4940 kHz con muy buena señal a las 0220 UT; parece que han solucionado el problema con su transmisor. Atte: (José Elías Díaz G, UT Nov 26, DX LISTENING DIGEST) 4939.6, Radio Amazonas, Puerto Ayacucho, 2324-2340, 25-11, Transmisión deportiva, locutor, partido de fútbol del equipo Rio Negro, múltiples identificaciones: "En sintonía de Radio Amazonas Internacional, la emisora más deportiva". Interferencia de Voice of the Strait, China en 4940 kHz. Se escucha mejor en LSB. 23222. Escuchas realizadas en Friol, 27 km W. de Lugo, Grundig Satellit 500 y Sony ICF SW 7600 G, antena de cable, 10 metros, orientada WSW. Muy buena propagación esta madrugada en la banda de 60 metros, y mucha nieve en Friol hoy (Manuel Méndez, Spain, DX LISTENING DIGEST) ** VIETNAM. 4739.7, R. TV. Son La, Nov 18, 1257-1306, 34443, Vietnamese, music, 1259 theme music and ID, talk (Kouji Hashimoto, Japan, Japan Premium via DXLD) ** VIETNAM [and non]. Dien Bien on 6316.8? 26 Nov at 1307 noted a station on 6316.8 with talks and music in local dialect. Closed down at 1330. Programming and music was the style Vietnamese locals have. Is Dien Bien now here, or is it some other Vietnamese station? At the same time, 4739.7 Son La was audible, signing off at 1401. After 1330 I could also hear NOJ Kodiak, Alaska with RTTY/CW marker on 6317.5 (Jari Savolainen, Kuusankoski, Finland, dxldyg via DX LISTENING DIGEST) This was posted on 21st Nov: In recently few weeks, Dien Bien B.S. was not monitored on 6378 or 6442 kHz, but I found it on NF of 6317. Sked is not changed. 73 & FB DXing! (Kenji Takasaki, in Mie pref, JAPAN, w/JRC NRD-545/535D/525/515, via Mauno Ritola, Finland, ibid.) Thank you Mauno, so it's Dien Bien. That quoted message was unnoticed by me, if it was publicly available. Thanks again, 73 (Jari, ibid.) UNIDENTIFIED. Quito 25/Nov/2005 5:42. 5680.69, unID LA, 1015 UT. The last mornings I have noted a station here. The signal is very weak, I just can tell it´s LA and Indian language (Björn Malm, Quito, Ecuador, http://www.malm-ecuador.com DX LISTENING DIGEST) Could be 4 x 1420. Or 8 x 710; Rebelde Cuba would be a possibility except for the Indian language (gh, DXLD) UNIDENTIFIED. Numbers station, 1625 UT, 7975 kHz, reception 34333, lady in Spanish (N8YI, Tim, dxldyg via DXLD) And where are you? (gh) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ UNSOLICITED TESTIMONIALS ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Glen, Happy Thanksgiving and keep up the great job you're doing for our hobby (Tom Messer, Mequon, WI, Nov 24) PUBLICATIONS ++++++++++++ INTERESTING RADIO FILES That's exactly what I've named a new web page I just created. Every other week or so I'll post a few pictures from a mystery station you must identify and possibly an audio clip or two you should listen to. There's not really any prize, it's just for fun. I figured someone else might be interested as to what I find while surfing online. To get to the new page, just go to: http://www.lowpowerbroadcasting.com/stuff.html If you'd like to submit a picture or audio file to me, please send it to the email address on that page! Have Fun! (Paul B. Walker, Jr., Nov 25, IRCA via DXLD) DIGITAL BROADCASTING ++++++++++++++++++++ MORE IBOC THREAD, MOSTLY FROM IRCA Those with money are listening to XM, Sirius or internet radio. Digital or not, terrestrial radio is mostly a dying medium. The quality of programming makes it so. Were it not so, there would be no need for satellite or internet radio as a medium. Money talks, and the people are paying not to listen to terrestrial radio. It has nothing to do with whether or not its digital or analog (Kevin Redding, ibid.) I think it's a difference in what we define a listenable signal. David feels 10mv/m is good, while my thought is more by signal to noise. Probably 2-3mv/m or even less is good to me. It's not just my receiver. I've compared notes with another engineer who has a Panasonic radio, and he reports even worse results in terms of coverage radius. I have not spoken with the other engineer who has the Kenwood. ``Are these stations transmitting a different HD signal? What would happen if these receivers were reversed geographically? What kind of comparison can be done in any market to try and run down these differences? Would David's receiver decode WOR in Providence during the LSS/1800 window?`` I think the HD signal is equivalent. I also don't think that swapping radios would matter. It's what we call a listenable signal that is where we differ. Unfortunately, were I to use the 10mv/m benchmark as the limit of my target audience, I'd be eliminating a lot of the rated Providence ADI. I'd lose a bunch of Bristol County, MA for example. The sales staff would have a fit. ``Right now the sample range for either receivers or stations is too small to be very useful.`` Yes, but once I hear from the Clear Channel guy, we'll have a sample of three different receivers. That's not too bad. Hardly the be all and end all, but it's enough to get a sense (Craig Healy, Providence, RI, ibid.) Well, maybe some places radio listening is more common at home or at work than in the car. No one I work with has a radio, but mp3 players and CD players are common. I'm hard pressed to find any teenager who regularly listens to the radio anymore, even in the care. Certainly anecdotal evidence of the circle of kids that my son knows, through school and various community groups, indicates that radio plays little to no role for them. Not scientific, but surely not too far from the average anymore. It does seem indicative that Apple IPods are already in short supply for this holiday season. Places I do know that radio is common include the multiple construction sites in this area. Observation indicates that these are not expensive radios, but the cheapest box with the biggest yell to it. Of course, this area, the 214th market or so, doesn't matter at all, what we think, watch, buy, listen to, or any of that. So I'll just shut up on the whole debate again and let another buncha city fellers tatter their suits on the latest great thing to come along (Gerry Bishop, Niceville, FL, ibid.) Since, to the mass audience, HD radio might as well be all illusion since its coolness derives not from sounding better but because of the use of a cool buzzword, HD radio may not be a solution at all, much less the most equitable. One might (as I have albeit unscientifically) asked all sorts of people who say they do not listen to radio or rarely do the simple question 'why not ?' The most frequent answer I hear, regardless of age group, is content-related. What I do readily concede is that for a period of time, the younger age groups may be lured by the 'digital' label, but if there isn't something of interest to them behind it, that period of time could be brief (Russ Edmunds, ibid.) David Gleason wrote: ``AM will be a band for sports, news, talk, niche programming and some ethnic where the respective community is small but economically viable.`` Then why in the world do we need HD? Sports, news, talk ---all you need is a good strong reliable signal, not HD (W. Curt Deegan, Boca Raton, (Southeast) Florida, ibid.) Radio is slowly losing the total time weekly people devote to it, but the alternatives tend to be more in the area of video games, the attraction of HDTV, as well as portable music devices, etc. The cume, or weekly reach of radio, is at the same level as it was 40 years ago when Arbitron started. And the weekly hours spent listening per person are only off by less than 10% since 1952! Radio has not lost in upper income levels. Any erosion is the product of there always having been 5% of the people who do not use radio, and another 5 to 7 percent who use it little. These are the main candidates for satellite. It's not about income, it is about satisfaction. Satellite, with 8 million subscribers, is mostly an in-car medium due to reception issues. That means that, on a national level, the share potential of satellite today is about 0.3% of total listening. It is no threat to terrestrial radio, today or in the immediate future. And when the future comes, multipurpose broadband devices will kill satellite. Internet radio is attractive more to providers than to listeners. One has the ability to cover the entire US with a minimal investment, as opposed to $400 million for one FM in LA today. Until the needed broadband devices appear, web radio is too fragmented to appeal to more than very nice listening. And when it has potential, the content providers will be radio companies. Internet, broadband and terrestrial have the same model, which is ad supported. The successful ones in any area will be the ones that are mass appeal and cut through the clutter (David Gleason, ibid.) Calling arguments 'false' impugns no one. Arguments aren't people. They are arguments. Persons acting in good faith who unknowingly repeat others' false data aren't 'liars'. Many of us have been fooled. Why reject this perfectly honorable defense and instead falsely accuse others of calling one 'liar'? Characteristic overblown protests well validate concerns about HD's destructive aspects. Re: only 35+ listen to terrestrial radio, who cooked that survey? Need one ask? News here. Though seen as relic from bygone era during greedy-gut 90's, 'good will' endures. Mr. Edmunds, tediously misquoted by some, seems to affirm this. If I gauge his words accurately, in advertising context, 'steak sustains, sizzle doesn't'. Long before HD's gaseously overstated non-allure fades, disenchanted public and broadcasters alike will have returned to what works. Talent, more local the better and good quality analog trump Wall St. Greaseballs. Didn't Silent Movies supposedly sound radio's death knell? Or Talkies? Technicolor? Sorry, Television. Television, said 'industry leaders', would finish radio once and for all. Then it was. What saved radio from these certain albeit premature demises? Compelling programs. =Z.= (Paul Vincent Zecchino Managoodfaith Key, FL BT, ibid.) Pretty common knowledge in the industry. My own research certainly backs that up. Kids don't know or care about AM or even FM much these days. We only have a small handful of sub-40 DXers here. Radio just isn't the magnet it was pre-iPod or pre internet. You have to go back to pre-cable TV to find the magic (Craig Healy, Providence, RI, ibid.) Actually, 25-34 is the highest usage of radio group in the US, followed by 35-44. 55+ is lower than the 18-54 group, as are teens. An average I made out of data from 6 of the top 10 markets in the US, and 94.6% of 18-24, 96.4% of 25-34 and 94.1% of teens use radio weekly. The 25-34 usage in hours is higher than any other demo (David Gleason, ibid.) Don't forget that there are no commercials or even an announcer on an iPod. Heck, the amount of wear on my car radio buttons in my teens was exactly linear with the amount of commercials played. Hardly a new mindset. I often listen to MP3s in my truck, even when I have AM/FM/XM at my fingertips. I have probably 4,000 songs on my home computer and I'm gradually filling the CDs with them. All formatted to match whatever mood I happen to be in. Just like the kids, though the music certainly varies. No cRap music here (Craig Healy, Providence, RI, ibid.) I define "listenable signal" by the empirical evidence of where listeners tune in radio stations. In both Arbitron studies and diary reviews I have made, it is conclusively evident that nearly all AM listening in rated markets is in the 10 mv/m contour or better, and in FM, the drop dead curve is 64 dbu. In other words, across the nearly 300 rated markets in the USA, listeners tell us what signal level is necessary for them to make use of a station. Fringe signals are not generally used. It's not my definition of listenable --- but, rather, the proof of where over a million diarykeepers a year say and do (David Gleason, ibid.) Yes. That may hold for most stations. My standard is where I can hear the station without it being a mental chore to filter the noise. That's the crux of our coverage disagreement. You have an apple, I have an orange. (shrug) There are exceptions, such as WCTK doing very well in the Providence market, and some Boston stations also doing well here. WCTK is the only Providence station to even show in the Boston book. That's a point not lost on the sales staff. It would also make HD Radio not such a good bet for them. Anyhow, I will keep plugging away to see just where the HD signals are useable. And, I'll keep making an effort to speak with the Clear Channel guy here in town, and also their GM. I'm assuming he has an HD radio in his BMW. I should bring the thing back in the house to try for some skywave before the Mid Winter Anomaly hits (Craig Healy Providence, RI, ibid.) What I really said: "The comparison is based on research I have done and that done by other researchers as to attitudes towards different entertainment delivery systems. AM is considered "dead" by nearly anyone under 35, and "not cool, hip or relevant" to anyone under 25. "Digital" is perceived as being good, anything that is not digital is not." Very few people under 35 listen to _AM_ radio. Listening to FM is very lively under 35. Please, try to at least paraphrase what I and others said, not what makes your point look cogent and pithy. I DID NOT say "only 35+ listen to terrestrial radio." One poster stated that his impression was that young people did not use radio, but that was clearly labeled as an observation, not a survey (David Gleason, ibid.) Okay, finally - the essence of it. Thank you. It's just marketing --- creating the "cool factor." Why not save a lot of time, effort, money and anguish? Just give analog radio a "cool" new name. How about listen to WAR (Wireless Analogue Radio) --- make it sound European, verrrry cool. As far as that goes, "Terrestrial" sounds pretty neat-o spiffy too. Or, WXYZ brings you this program in "Pure AG". Give the marketing boys a million bucks to give radio a cool new name and be done with it. There might even be words or labels out there that are cooler than "digital." (Russ Johnson, K3PI, ibid.) Sounds like nonsense to me. Just like most poll results, it reflects the results wanted by those who pay for the poll. No ads, no fading from obstructions, play what you want when you want. A play list is more than just content, it is the order and frequency played as well. You collect all the songs you can, but you listen to what you like (Curt Deegan, ibid.) I might add to Curt's observation. My radio listening (non DX) is strictly on the Internet. I'm aware that I am in the vast minority of radio listeners here but it has several positives I like. No commercials, formats I definitely appreciate & announcer-disc jockey- whatever that add to the listening pleasure. In the hay-days of radio (1960s-70s) the disc jockey was extremely important. Radio execs have run all but a few out of the business. I find all this corporate gobbledy-gook really distressing & tending to upset my innards. But, don't take that personally --- I find almost ALL corporations (these days) to stir up my wrath. More power to the "Z" man (Don Kaskey, CA, ibid.) Thanks. I did the poll myself with my in house call center (David Gleason, ibid.) ...ummmm hmmmmmm...... (Kevin, ibid.) Thanks? Sure! Thank you, for substantiating my point (W. Curt Deegan, Boca Raton, (Southeast) Florida, ibid.) Which is many orders of magnitude greater in capacity than most of us would have access to. I'd not dismiss the research so lightly. In any event, I really have nothing further to add to the IBOC Chronicles right now, so I'll let my corner of the story drop (Craig Healy, Providence, RI, ibid.) Me too. If I go any further it will be an is too, is not argument. If with the change to IBOC, music or full service went on the station, I might not disagree, but I don't see any effort going towards programming. I'm done with IBOC for a while (Kevin Redding, ibid.) This is my last message on this reflector, as I have unsubscribed and also asked my IRCA membership to be terminated. DXing is not the radio friendly hobby it once was, living a symbiotic and friendly relationship. Members of both clubs are antagonistic to radio, and qualify as grouchy old men in most cases. No wonder stations don't verify any more! In my discussions with Mr. Mangled English, I have been asked by Lynn to "simmer down" when I was the one called a liar, cheat, thief of a billion radios, ad nauseam. Obviously, someone who is in radio who actually knows what is going on in the industry has no place in this club or on this group. W: I run a multi million dollar research department, and our job is to find out what listeners want. When we see research done by others (as in the iPod issue) we independently verify it, using the highest standards of polling with a national staff of over 60 people who only do radio research. Our job is to protect $3.5 billion in radio properties and we do that by giving the listeners what they want, and we do it well because our sector listens an average of 24 hours a week, 25% more than the general market. We are not out to prove an untruth, as that would totally violate or reason for existence. But there are a few people in here with absurdly and bizarrely wrong ideas about radio and radio listeners who have no interest in learning truth, and insult the character and values of any who disagree. You all deserve each other (David Gleason, Nov 23, IRCA via DXLD) But we sure don't deserve IBOC. I'll probably get sent to the principal's office again and be forced to listen to a full season of Tony Danza re-runs, and I will probably say good bye to the IRCA also, but for the reason that I am not into being treated like a four year old. I will be looking for a club (if there is one) with a little wider focus and breadth, not a politically correct sewing circle. I think someone like Paul is a breath of fresh air. And if the IBOC hacks on the list don't like it then that's tough. If someone wants to call me a putz on or off a list, I am perfectly capable of dealing with it myself. I don't need to whine to anybody that my feelings are hurt. Good grief, Charlie Brown. Semper Fi (Chris Black, Cape Cod, ibid.) We deserve something better. It's not very robust, and the data rate is too low by a significant factor. If we are going to do digital, we need to do it right. A lot of people will lose radio service period. I expect if you drive I-40 coast to coast in an all IBOC world, more than half your trip will be greeted by silence unless you are right in the city limits. I *HAVE* hundreds of CD's. I have hundreds of LP's. IN FACT I have enough CD's to run at least 3 different radio formats. I get very tired of the I'm taking my toys home! attitude. And I don't HAVE to be on any list (s) to enjoy my radios. And if they are not useable anymore I can always play with Wolves (Powell E Way III, SC, ibid.) David, It is people like myself that lose by you removing yourself from this thread. I am a Newbie Ham and love Radio, both communicating and listening. I personally wish you would reconsider your decision. 73 (Jack "gunny" KE7FMD McAlister, ibid.) Kevin, I said it two or three years ago on the (iirc) NRC list, I'll say it again - If one were suitably paranoid, one would think that IBOC is really about getting rid of the less well-funded competition AND forcing much sharper market area definition due to the fact you need (if my ongoing experiences with DRM is any guide) an S9+20 signal for reliable audio stream decoding. This means you *have to* listen to your relatively local stations because they're the only ones you *can* listen to. (Or will be, once the analog cobroadcast goes away...) Gotta hand it to the marketing types - it's ingenious! (Lee Reynolds, ibid.) Lee - Your insights are well corroborated by HD's own 'scientific objective' survey. To wit: "We could put half existing stations off air. No one would even notice, let alone miss them." Who in their right mind wants these arrogant suet-pots of avarice controlling the flow of information and entertainment via radio? Better off taking one's chances with Dr. Goebbels. Or maybe Idi Amin. At least he was an honest predator. Freely admitted his cannibalism. =Z.= (Paul Vincent Zecchino, Manacannibalism Key, FL, BT, ibid.) So let`s say that in a few years everything is IBOC and we want to listen to digital DX but it is no where near S9+20 but we have amplifiers and digital signal processing and noise reduction. Will we be able to listen and when I can phase some back end superpest down to 5 to 10 dB below my target will my target be able to decode? 73 KAZ (Neil Kazaross, IL, ibid.) Bear in mind that I tried for quite some time with a variety of antennas to decode WOR-710. There are no significant local pests on either 700 or 720, and WOR is quite good here daytime. At SSS they are sometimes a killer signal. Outside of a couple of short blips like meteor scatter reception, I had no luck. I will try again, but I'm not encouraged. The analog portion of the JVC is a halfway decent radio. By extension, the digital portion should be OK. Anecdotal reports have it better than a Panasonic. FWIW, a Kenwood couldn't decode WOR either in Providence. The average power of the digital signal is much less than the analog carrier. I think a 50 kW has about 1 kW in the upper and lower sidebands each. That's not much for coverage. I wonder if any of these 50 kW monsters would consider a DX test using digital only mode? That would be interesting, even if it were only for ten or fifteen minutes at 3 am (Craig Healy, Providence, RI, ibid.) I've enjoyed reading the current IBOC thread, and I am happy that, in my retirement, I have enough things to do that I don't need radio! Our tastes are set, I think, when we are in our early to mid teens, and the music I enjoy most, as a result, is the music of the '40s and '50s. Not much of that on radio anymore. Collectors Choice music catalogs are welcome arrivals in the mail, here, and I finally broke down a couple of years ago and bought a modest CD player. (Of course, our cars now come with CD players ... one of the two cars has combo CD-Cassette.) I suppose, since I expect to live another 25 years and counting (my mother is 95 and still alive and alert), I ought to explore some updated means of converting those 500 or so grand 33 1/3 LPs I have into something that'll play in 2030 as my activities taper off. I haven't gone shopping for a phonograph needle in a long time, so I suppose I'm probably too late to figure out how to transfer LPs to CDs, much less mp3 or whatever. I've begun to duplicate some of the material via Collectors Choice purchases, which I'll probably be able to do until Medicare goes belly-up. When I was in my early teens, I began DX'ing during the TOH and BOH station breaks, with most of the programming block programming from NBC, CBS, ABC and MBS. I enjoyed the radio comedy shows, the personality DJs and in-depth news coverage --- all of which are long gone, save for some content on NPR. (Try to find news in depth from a commercial station, even on the all-news stations. KRLD this fall cut the 8-minute CBS feed at 7 a.m. Central to 3 minutes --- it was the one fixed radio point in the Callarman household.) I'll have WRR on occasionally when I'm too lazy to put a CD into the player, and late at night, Janice can't go to sleep without the noise of a talk show -- - she has a knack, most nights, of (just before she drops off) pushing the off button. In the car, when we're together, the radio is just noise. Going cross country, we try to find a top-of-the-hour newscast to keep semi-informed, but two minutes of news doesn't cut it. Unfortunately, "All Things Considered!" doesn't run during most of the hours we're on the road. On the road, even during the daytime on AM, there isn't much difference between the noise floor (particularly when you're avoiding the interstate highways and driving parallel to a power line) and the IBOC noise. KRLD and KMKI, by the way, eat up the adjacent channels at least 150 miles out between here and Amarillo --- almost all of which is in ground conductivity 30 on the maps. I haven't checked driving south, where the ground conductivity pales. There will come a time, I suppose, when we will have to replace our analog TVs with HDTV units unless satellite somehow keeps us supplied. I doubt that we will purchase an HD radio (except, maybe, what comes with the new car) because there isn't enough available programming to sustain our interest. We are in one of those niches that no longer appeals to even broadcasters who are seeking a viable niche for the seventh or eighth signal they own in the market. We who have been professional newspeople recognize the perception- reality relationship and how hard it is to counter those who become masters of spinning and skewing to turn an undesirable reality into a profitable perception. I do not feel qualified, though, to comment on the viability of IBOC. I hope, for the sake of the industry I used to love, it turns out to be everything its proponents say it will be. Regardless of the quality of the signal, I do not expect suddenly to find programming that will appeal to me. I recognize the fact that I am part of a dwindling minority that is no longer a money-making market for even the most skilful niche programmer. That's my reality, at age 70. I'm not taking sides in the IBOC argument because 1) my kind of radio will not rise from the ashes and 2) stations aren't going to sign off at midnight to return at 6 a.m. or run sunrise-to-sunset. There's a great difference between a listener and a DX'er, but I may wind up soon being neither. I am thankful this season that there are many other enjoyable, productive ways to spend my time that I really won't miss radio! There. I'm living up to my title --- the Krumudgeon from Krum (John Callarman, TX, ibid.) And here's the acid test. We have all of these stations now running IBOC, and advertising that "now broadcasting in high definition" or "now broadcasting in digital", and there are no consumer radios out there to speak of, so everybody is today hearing the same-old analog dressed in new cool clothes, and have any of them enjoyed an ratings spikes because of it ? If so, I haven't seen nor heard of it. To me, that's a strong indicator that this is largely spin, and the market isn't really noticing. So now IF receivers become available at reasonable prices, and if the content remains the same, there will surely be some segment of the population who will buy the radios based on the cool factor alone. And some may actually perceive a difference sufficient to make that commitment. But at the end of the day, we may have only a parallel to the AM Stereo paradigm. And if satellite radio is to be eclipsed by internet streaming audio or iPods or something else still in the pipeline, I fail to see how HD will manage to save terrestrial radio. I understand all of the rationale its proponents have put forth, but I see it as a last-ditch long-shot gamble. But there's still something missing here -- if radio listening isn't declining rapidly (according to the numbers), then why the desperation to change the mechanism/image?? Or is it simply trying to find new ways to squeeze more juice from the same orange? (Russ Edmunds, Blue Bell, PA ( 360' ASL ), ibid.) Agree - Flyblow corporate gass-offs use high-hat arguments to justify scheme to steal spectrum, radios and livelihoods of broadcasters who refuse to be shaken down. As you say, how could TeamBOC's behavior not upset one's innards? If HD is worthy, why promote it with statistics pulled from thin air? Hertzian flatulence no substitute for compelling programs. Citizens know good radio from pile of loose dog droppings misnamed "Our Inevitable Digital Future". No point discussing, let alone debating compatibility. HD crowd angry that transition to all-digital (your radios = junk) won't occur as quickly as desired. Sound like they're interested in HD compatibility with your investment? Esteemed colleague puzzled by mention of HMO Murder & Forgery 4 Profit Follies. Simple: HMO & family lice respond to questions & concerns with dismissals, denials, dissemblance, distractions, character assassination, retaliation. Why? Much to hide. Why does HD cabal behave similarly, if HD truly as they claim? =Z.= (Paul Vincent Zecchino, Manaflatulence Key, FL, BT, ibid.) Another 2c worth; the only time when I listen to AM radio (non-DX, that is) now is for about 1/2 hour of "news" in the morning while shaving/showering, etc. Otherwise, it's either FM (NPR/MPR), or more frequently, a CD, while doing errands around town. Also, to my knowledge, none of our children (ages 35 to 44) or their families listen to AM at all, it's either FM, CD or, increasingly, IPOD. Any time I've asked them why they don't listen to AM, the response is that there's nothing worth listening to. I can't speak for them with certainty but I strongly suspect that none of them would bother to invest in an HD radio receiver for that reason (John Sampson, ibid.) If, as has been stated on this list, the magic is in what the medium is called (and not in the technology), I suggest that the answer to restoring the "sizzle" to terrestrial radio is at hand -- at least from a technological standpoint. Moreover, it requires no lies or even hyperbole. Most important, it does NOT require a new transmission system, such as the highly problematic and poorly thought-out HD Radio or even DRM. Certainly on the AM band, it is now possible to construct receivers that are "all digital," possibly without even an analog mixing stage (although there is some doubt about that last claim). Such receivers would clearly have to sell for more than $9.95 each, although, even at the outset, it might be possible to sell them profitably at prices in the $100 area. (Remember, $100 is substantially less than the initial pricing of boom-box-style HD Radio receivers.) If digital receivers for existing broadcast transmission systems ever became popular, economies of scale would enter into the manufacturing cost and the prices would come down -- perhaps to the $50 area. I suppose that with a sufficient level of integration of the RF functions into the radio ICs, $9.95 digital radios might even become possible, although I hesitate to forecast such a development. The technology for building DSP-based receivers (which are digital in every sense of the word) has been understood for at least a decade. These receivers are vastly different from what the general public thinks of as "digital radios" -- analog receivers with digital tuning displays that have been on the market for more than 20 years. Through software, DSP-based receivers could be endowed with characteristics that would make them superior to the vast majority of present-day analog receivers – although probably not superior to communication receivers such as the Drake R8 and its peers. What's more, if the industry put in place the proper standards, DSP-based radios could be upgraded through software when significant advancements became available. It is, in fact, not inconceivable that schemes could be implemented for delivering software updates to the receivers in a manner that would be transparent to users and would require no user action. The technology is very powerful and, despite what iBiquity and its co-conspirators would have us believe, it doesn't necessitate killing the current broadcast system to save it (Dan Strassberg, ibid.) The $64,000 question has not yet been answered (Kevin Redding, ibid.) Actually it may have, between the lines. Clearly we all know at least anecdotally that radio is no longer cool; no longer as popular as it once was with the young - no matter what Arbitron may say. Maybe the numbers are staying the same because more people are living longer and hence listening longer. Very clearly there has to be a fear for the decline of terrestrial radio going forward within the industry. But if you're losing the young, they're the ones advertisers love - their tastes aren't set yet, they can be easily influenced and they have money (Russ Edmunds, Blue Bell, PA, ibid.) ``Make radio digital, it is cooler than it was and moves up in image among entertainment choices.`` Not a prayer of this happening --- the train's gone from the station. Hottest thing this year is that 30G IPod, which blows away the 300 song limit and adds video capability. Interestingly, seems that most of the Hendrix/Beatles/Zeppelin tracks are hotter than ever with the IPod set. It's not "digital" that selling it. Digital makes it possible, but what sells it is "it's mine." Doubt that IPod users bother much with radio, 300 songs or 3000. "Extensive research" has a history of being off the mark where music consumers are concerned. (Case in point, the incredible sales of Beatles 1 and Elvis #1, neither expected to sell as much, as fast, and continue as strong for years as these.) If radio wants to survive, it needs to stop trying to compete with the rest of technology and do what it does best, which is serve as a voice for the community where it resides. I guess that means the "niche" stations will last longer than all the rest of them. Whether the signal is digital, analog, or strings and tin cans, the industry's got to go home. Go ahead, if you wish, and point to some more research that shows how ESPN radio or Rush Limbaugh or whatever other source has somehow kept radio alive. It kept stations on the air, I'll grant, but it's not alive, because there's nobody home. How can we tell this? All that dead air on some station breaks, all that doubled audio on others is a giveaway. IPod=cool, digital=so what? Now if you'll pardon me, I need to burn some more CDs to have at work (Gerry Bishop, Niceville, FL, ibid.) I have no idea what IBOC is but judging by the last 50 messages in my inbox, I am about ready to leave this list. When bad social behavior (like the kind of stuff you see on rec.radio.shortwave) starts to appear, you know it is time to sign off. Something to keep in mind: Some of the finest DXers in North America are on here (heck, 2 of them live within 1 km of my QTH) and it would be a loss to drive them away. Me leaving would effect no one (Colin Newell in Victoria, Dxer since 1971, Drake R8 - Kenwood R2000 - Wellbrook Antennas, ibid.) Since my posts are appended to this resignation, the implication is I am responsible for the inhospitality. Let me point out that a couple days ago I posted two messages; one on digital sidebands vs analog signal strength related to antenna gain (Subj: IBOC/analog reception comparisons.), and one about a station operating improperly (Subj: WWNN breaking the rules.). Both are perfectly *legal* IRCA List topics. I even explicitly stated in the first of these posts that I did not want to restart a previous discussion that went astray, initiated by an earlier post of mine on spectrum scan comparisons. Despite that, in both cases of my posts, the resignee jumped in and took issue with my postings not on their merit but because of their content. A flurry of exchanges took place under the banner of these two subjects, very little of which had anything to do with those topics. I even re-posted the first of these in an attempt to redirect the discussion back to the intended topic. If there was a fight picked, I submit it was not by me, and resent my posts being used to imply that I did (W. Curt Deegan, Boca Raton, (Southeast) Florida, ibid.) As one who has some interesting questions (I think to ask David) I hope that he'll stay here! I also strongly feel an IBOC disussion forum is needed and said forum must be keep FLAME FREE and strictly moderated. I do wonder why when ever IBOC is discussed for more than a couple days a few of us on these boards end up insulting and pissing off others. Honestly, it can be important to take off one's rose colored glasses and consider what someone else may be telling you. As for IBOC, here's my two questions. "In its current form IBOC certainly puts considerable hash on the adjacent channels. But what will happen if all stations go digital and become IBOC and there's no more analog? Can that digital info be placed closer to the center of the channel so there will be no more slop? Or will that slop not matter when all is digital?" "How much signal will be needed above the QRM to lock into a signal from digital AM's? With analog we can hear stations' audio that comes through stronger audios on the channel. I presume (like DTV) that won't be possible and the digital AM will need to be somewhat stronger than the pests to lock and for a period of time as well" 73 KAZ (Neil Kazaross, IL, ibid.) It's sad when the tenor of a discussion drives intelligent people away. My sentiments: (1) There was an unresolved conflict between David's assertions on the usable range of IBOC and Craig's in-the-field results. I'm sorry we didn't get input from Tom Ray of WOR but I guess he's only on the NRC list. (2) I'm not a techie, but it is strange that usable IBOC signal is limited whereas the first adjacent hiss gets out for hundreds of miles. (I suppose this is analogous to not being able to get stereo on a distant FM station). (3) None of us knows if IBOC will fly. IBOC or not, the programming on stations remains the same. iPods have been successful simply because we like to be able to access our favorites 24/7. We don't buy iPods for their frequency response - when you're riding a bike or working out you aren't too concerned about crispness - and most of us don't listen on anything where we could hear the difference anyway (I mean who among us really sits down on a couch and just sits there listening to the stereo on good speakers?). Satellite music was phase one - our kind of music without the commercials - and with iPods, we get rid of both the commercials and the songs we don't care for. On AM, who cares if Rush sounds better? The words remain the same. I have not read anything on the usability of IBOC on FM (multipath, usable distance, etc.) Bottomlining it, I think we are a curious group and I think before the insults started, it was informative. I am sorry it degraded. I do have to say though that like Betamax and AM stereo, the success of IBOC is up to the public and not DXers (Pete Taylor, Tacoma, WA, ibid.) Unfortunately, every time there is a discussion of IBOC, there are inevitably some few who begin complaining and threatening to quit. Another small group cluck, clucks and says the topic must be declared off limits, those who discuss it banned, or create a new list just for this topic. Both rather childish attitudes if you ask me. This latest exchange took place under two or three subject lines. It doesn't require any great intellect to realize if one is not interested, when one of those topics appears, delete it. I do it all the time when a thread of no interest to me gets rolling. I would never consider demanding the topic be banned just because I don't care about it. I think IBOC is a very relevant topic for this list. There are issues of DXing opportunities and impediments. There are technical issues also related to DXing. There are facts and figures about stations using IBOC, that some list members have every right to discuss. Some of the discussions of demographics and preference polls leave me cold, but those too are of interest to others and appropriate to the list as it serves all its members. If there is unpleasantness, that is not the fault of the topic but of individuals. That should be dealt with privately, not with a global denial of an entire subject of discussion. Everyone just needs to relax. No one needs to quit. Nothing needs to be banned or moved. Everyone should show some tolerance and accept that different people have differing interests (W. Curt Deegan, Boca Raton, (Southeast) Florida, ibid.) Agreed that IBOC is VERY relevant. I still have no problem with a separate list for it since quite a few here wish to have this list more centered on radios, antennas, and DX receptions and techniques. However, no one should be banned unless they are very rude to others here and no one needs to quit. The topic doesn't need to be closed unless it is going absolutely no where and/or turned into a 100% flame war. This is not the case here, IMHO. 73 KAZ (Neil Kazaross, ibid.) Its THE topic because whether or not you want to deal with it, we DXers are in the tunnel, standing on the tracks and a 125 car coal train is heading towards us at 88 miles per hour. We have to figure out how to deal with it or DXing is history. It needs to be talked about and openly FROM A DXERS STANDPOINT. We need to figure out how to DX it or DX around it. There was one fellow on the NRC list that caused this same problem when discussing IBOC. When he came to the IRCA list, the same problem occurred. I run ABDX and we pass lots and lots of messages daily. We openly discuss IBOC and there is never an issue there. We even get a little boisterous about it but there is no sacred cow to be protected so there is no rancor as we had here. Keep IBOC open. We HAVE to figure out how to deal with it or this hobby is done (Kevin Redding, ibid.) ``There was an unresolved conflict between David's assertions on the usable range of IBOC and Craig's in-the-field results.`` It really was resolved. His definition of "useable signal" was based on extensive research of the ratings books and ended up at about 10mv/m. My definition was much looser, and a subjective "where I can listen comfortably". Maybe 2-3 mv/m. That's why there is a difference in the apparent radius of the analog vs. digital coverage. I suspect most DXers would be OK with my definition, while the Average Joe would fit David's. ``We didn't get input from Tom Ray of WOR but I guess he's only on the NRC list.`` Me too. I was sorta hoping that one of the 50 kW Big Guns would have some digital only testing sometime. This would hopefully give a full 50 kW of IBOC right on the assigned frequency. I'd love to see how far it could be heard. We really don't know how far an IBOC signal can be decoded under typical adverse skywave conditions. When I think of the difficulty in hearing a 1 kw NYC area station, I'm not really surprised that the IBOC from WOR won't decode. I am simply trying to clean up the loose ends of the thread, and not continue it to the next decade.. (Craig Healy, Providence, RI, ibid.) If I appeared to be a grouchy old man in my lengthy diatribe last night, my comments were not directed at David Gleason, whose description of today's radio market I consider to be an accurate assessment of today's society. I tried to make it clear that my thought is that what the vast but fragmented majority of the listeners today want is different from what appeals to me. In the 1950s, when my tastes were set, it would have been economic suicide for a broadcaster to program a station with the same kind of material that was aired in the '20s and '30s. It would take a courageous broadcaster to program what I would listen to, because there aren't enough of me left. I am bothered by personal attacks made by anybody against anybody, but in my long life as a radio newsman and particularly a newspaper editor, I learned three little words that insulated me against the few personal attacks that were made against me: "Consider the source." I also have advised in editorials periodically throughout my professional career that one should be careful about accusing someone of lying. If a person says what he believes, he is not lying (John Callarman, Krum TX, ibid.) I am not a member of the IRCA. I was for years, but politics and name calling, and who heard what or who didn't, lessened the club's service and necessity to what is an enjoyable and fun hobby for me. And it's not just about IBOC. I value the thoughts and opinions of all in this hobby, but the superior attitude of "I know better then you" isn't for me. If I hear France on 162 kHz tonight, does that mean they were running their regular night power of just one million watts, or did I only hear them because they were "cheating" (a term used more and more by those who are far removed from the plate voltage and current meters on the transmitter final in question), and running their two million watt day power? I could care less about name calling, or station totals. Just the joy of hearing something new or distant is enough for me. I know what I have heard, and what I haven't. I have no idea how many stations I have DXed, but I remember the thrill of many of them. They were no great feats on my part. I have average equipment, a modest budget, and yet while I'd admit it's not as fun on MW as it was when I could hear perhaps 50 different rock station playlists and jingles at night, I still enjoy the hobby. For the fun of it. Ronald Schatz vs. C.M. Stanbury II drove me out of the IRCA a few decades ago. It's just that I was more interested in what station might get a pattern or format change, then who knows more about radio, or is of better character, or is right. The Internet database and FCC sites never have to prove who is a better DXer. And there are some great sites. Many run by members of DX clubs. You have all heard great DX using your skill and talent over the years. You have nothing to prove. It's a lot more enjoyable when you do it for fun. And for those who remember, where is my Radio Millón QSL? (Brock Whaley, Lilburn, GA, ibid.) Okay, I agree that the fact that IBOC discussions usually turn into "is too/is not" wee-weeing contests gets awfully tiresome. But like Curt says, that's what the "delete" function is for. The fact that certain individuals seem to make it a habit to pick up their toys and go home (serial list-quitters, I call them) when the heat's on is also exceedingly tiresome. But just as tiresome are the threats to ban open discussion of topics that, whether we like them or not, are EXTREMELY RELEVANT to mediumwave DXing -- case in point: IBOC. Oh, and just for the record, people who resolutely refuse to write in complete sentences (like Paul) don't irritate me nearly as much as those who e.e.cummings-style, never capitalize. Just be glad nobody on the list does THAT! Happy Thanksgiving (Randy Stewart, Battlefield MO, ibid.) There was a bit more discussion not about IBOC per se, but about whether IBOC should be discussed, until the moderator finally put a stop to it on the IRCA list, in no uncertain terms. Scott Fybush is in process of setting up a new list where it may be discussed [below]. As for David Eduardo Gleason, I think we can learn a lot about the corporate take on broadcasting from what he says, and I have also found the give-and-take entertaining as long as it lasted. But I was just waiting for DEG to quit in a huff as he has previously from other lists when he can`t persuade the masses to his point of view. I wonder if he burned his QSL collexion again this time? (Glenn Hauser, OK, DX LISTENING DIGEST) Here`s another contribution not on the IRCA list, and which predates some of the latest developments: Hello to all of you! Over the past few days, I did quite a bit of reading through past DX Listening Digest issues about IBOC. Like most of you, I am STRONGLY against this anti-DX money-making thing. Why? First of all, since AM analog radios and some small stations use the AM broadcast band, why not put IBOC in a "new" band? For example the 120 meters tropical band segment which range from 2300 to 2480 (2495, but 2480 is more of a safe frequency to protect WWV) would be perfect. It is obviously smaller than the MW band, but if they want to make digital transmissions in the MF range, then the problem is solved. Also it would be great for the FCC to use both the MW and the 120 m tropical bands for IBOC, but with a "wider channel spacing than the actual 10 kHz separation between the stations like maybe 30 kHz", i.e.: 710, 740, 770, 800, 830, 860, 890, etc. (a station each 30 kHz instead of one each 10 kHz). Also the 1700-1800 kHz spectrum, just below the 160 meters ham band would be ideal; you could fit at least 3 stations there and since the NDBs are switching to satellite, portions of the LW spectrum could be integrated into the new IBOC band as well. When FM started, we didn't decide to use frequency modulation on the MW band which is too wide for the actual channels spacing. Doing this on MW today, just because of the "money" question makes me almost furious. If the people working at the FCC were doing more study to which part of the spectrum to allow, then all the interference problems will be finished. I really think we, as DX'ers need respect as far as our hobby go and I really think my solutions are plausible enough to make room to some reflections, among pro-IBOC persons like David Gleason. And I don't want stupid arguments like "negotiating new bands and/or a different channel spacing on the actual MW broadcasting band makes us lose money". I listen to MW Venezuelans and others for the love of getting in touch with distant cultures and learning geographic and musical things. It's like making MW an automatic word and imposing a local product to a listener that cannot hear anything else because of the digital hash sound. It's the relative difficulty of foreign MW receptions that makes many of us, I'll guess, so interested in different cultures, because it's different from the station's styles that we hear every day. Also, it has a better pedagogical effect. I want to hear for example Lara whose capital is Barquisimeto, an inland state (didn't hear anything from Lara yet). The fact that it is so hard to log the YV estado of Lara makes me remember that Barquisimeto isn't on the north coast, because it is farther and with a less effective water path enhancing effect! - logic. If I have to rely just on Internet (with MW just IBOC noise and boring locals) to hear Venezuela, then there wouldn't be anything special anymore in learning more of its geography, etc. The same goes for all the other interesting MW targets, not just Venezuela and Latin America, obviously. And the same is not only available for IBOC, but also for DRM. Those are my thoughts! I'd really love to see what you guys are thinking about these ideas. Be the good DX stuff with you! (Bogdan Chiochiu, QC, Nov 24, DX LISTENING DIGEST) RADIO TODAY & TOMORROW -- NEW LIST WHERE IBOC MAY BE DISCUSSED I'm grateful to Barry Mishkind for offering space on his radiolists.net server, and so I now invite anyone interested in taking talk of IBOC and other such matters away from the DX lists to come join us at "Radio Today and Tomorrow" at its new, permanent home. Sign up at rtt-subscribe @ radiolists.net (Or don't.) It's free, friendly, and hopefully it will allow the DX lists to focus on, well, DX, which would probably be a pleasant thing for all concerned. (I could use some of it here right about now!) s (Scott Fybush, Nov 26, IRCA via DXLD) PROPAGATION +++++++++++ MORE VHF SWBC HARMONICS, ASIA TO AUSTRALIA Hi All, Heard November 23 2005 on 30650, 2 x 15325, Radio Japan/NHK Tokyo-Yamata, at 0431z with Japanese program at a poor level with a musical selection, a lot of QRM from Southeast Asian FM stations. 15325 was 5x8, and the Japanese pager station on 33.0 MHz was 5x7/8, along with 43650 kHz meteor scatter station Japan 5x4. Had a good look from 30300 kHz up, and the only harmonic around. When conditions are good to Japan, I often check for 35205v P`yongyang, H3, and still have my hopes up for FEBC around 31040 from the Philippines, in our mornings. With careful monitoring I still think there are some harmonic catches to be made, but March/April may prove to be the best time for us in Australia. Icom R75 G5RV and Icom R7000 6 element for 50 MHz. Thanks for your comments, Glen[n]; your How to Listen to the World article got me started on harmonics in the first place!! And some time back our VHF group in Australia ICDX, distributed your AustralAsian Scene DX sheets, when you were in Thailand, amongst ourselves, very interesting reading, and a real classic. South East Asia is a hotspot for VHF, but where are the DXers? Most propagation loggers on the Web are devoid of VHF SWLers; very few in JA or USA, appear on the loggers, and only a few on the OH cluster. I think the lack of VHF DXing by SWLers in Japan is simply staggering; some of the best conditions in the world, large population, and no interest in it at all! and can't recall one VHF SWLer on the DX World 50 MHz logger page at all, in the USA with 300 million people. Will get of the soap-box now, and see you next time. 73 (David Vitek, Adelaide, South Australia, harmonics yg via DXLD) ###